Curse

Zinger314 · Dec 28, 2006, 07:28 AM // 07:28

[skill]Spoil Victor[/skill]

Yes, I fear that the Spoil Victor buff may perhaps have been too great.

Let's presume Spoil Victor at 16 Blood Magic procs only once. That's 105 unpreventable damage. That alone spits on high damage single-target elites such as [skill=text]Word of Censure[/skill] and [skill=text]Shatterstone[/skill]. And it's going to proc a lot more often than once.

Spoil Victor annoys almost every class. Melee classes feel an epic Empathy. Caster feel a prolonged Backfire. Monk take more damage healing than not healing. The only type of character exempt from Spoil Victor are...touch Rangers. (unsurprisingly)

Spoil Victor almost even outclasses [skill=text]Spiteful Spirit[/skill], the king of all Necromancer hexes!

A well-timed Spoil Victor can instantly kill a player. For 10 Energy, that's pretty damn good.

How do we fix Spoil Victor? Either raise the energy cost to 15e (best solution) or reduce the duration to 20ish seconds (same as Spiteful Spirit)

Riotgear · Dec 28, 2006, 07:33 AM // 07:33

Some combination of:

- Raise energy to 15
- Increase casting time to 2 seconds
- Increase recharge to 15-20 seconds
- Reduce damage by 20%
- Reduce duration to 20 seconds

Or perhaps change it to only trigger every time they deal damage to a foe with less health, which would still easily accomplish what would appear to be its intended purpose.

Schorny · Dec 28, 2006, 07:41 AM // 07:41

What me annoys me about spoil victor that it is a hex that can be cast on anybody and still be very effective.

backfire for example doesn't really work that well on a warrior. spoil victor does. empathy doesn't work really well on a monk - spoil victor does.

spiteful spirit for example is quite similiar to spoil victor: except it doesn't really hurt on any target that does not spam skills/attacks. It effectively shuts down a warrior, but it won't stop an interrupt ranger. spoil victor does.

that's what bothers me about that skill. if it wouldn't be damaging to every char, I think it'd be ok with the skill on damage/recast/energy cost basis...

yesitsrob · Dec 28, 2006, 08:47 AM // 08:47

Quote:

Spoil Victor almost even outclasses Spiteful Spirit {E}
, the king of all Necromancer hexes!

Almost? It out classes it by a fricking mile, and then some, with sugar on top. SS is rather mediocre in ones humble opinion

I don't think spoil victor is the worse of the imba skills right now. But agree something needs to be done about it, but nothing too drastic. Slightly increased cost OR recharge OR maybe even cast time would be enough. or reduced damage.

Gumby · Dec 28, 2006, 09:48 AM // 09:48

Yeah this skill definatley needs to be nerfed because everybody is running around abusing it -.-
/sarcasm

Thomas.knbk · Dec 28, 2006, 10:20 AM // 10:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

Let's presume Spoil Victor at 16 Blood Magic procs only once. That's 105 unpreventable damage.

It only triggers when you target someone else with less health. How is that unpreventable? You could not attack, or you could ask for a divert/purge.
I agree that it's a bit powerful now, and a slight damage nerf might be needed, but the dmg is in no way unpreventable. Something like 60-70 at 16 blood

Patccmoi · Dec 28, 2006, 10:57 AM // 10:57

He said 'if it procs once' that's 105 unpreventable damage. IF it procs. The thing is, with its duration unless you're basically doing nothing (or you're like a spirit spammer, one of the few things unaffected) it will proc repeatedly.

What he meant by unpreventable damage isn't that you can't prevent it from procing but that if it procs nothing stops it (not really true, but close enough). It's health loss, not damage, so prot spirit won't reduce it, etc.

Personally i'd like to see Spoil Victor something like 10/2/15, lasts 10..25 seconds, 15..85 damage (stats 0..15)

You could have it on 2 people all the time going for max blood with AtB, damage would be ok but still somewhat toned down, and recharge/cast time are longer.

I think that it's fine that it remains a top tier hex (and i think that the stats i put on it would allow it to remain top tier), it's an elite hex and i like THREATENING elite hexes since they're so easy to remove now with things like Divert (maybe not in RA, but i won't start talking about balance with RA in mind). Its versatility (working on nearly everything) is one of the things required by an elite hex to be viable as opposed to something like Visions of Regret that is so specific it's hard to sacrifice an elite for it in a team because of the risk it'll simply be useless. So its versatility SHOULD stay. It must be threatening enough since it doesn't proc every hit/spell/skill, so the damage should be pretty high (but i think 85 at 15 is more than enough). Long duration is required too because of it, but i think that it shouldn't be possible to keep it on more than 2 people most of the time so i think that 15s recharge with RED ENGINE GO~25s duration is a good mix.

Zinger314 · Dec 28, 2006, 05:07 PM // 17:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas.knbk

I agree that it's a bit powerful now, and a slight damage nerf might be needed, but the dmg is in no way unpreventable. Something like 60-70 at 16 blood

That wouldn't work. Before the buff, Spoil Victor took 63 Health per proc. And it was completely useless back then...

TheOneMephisto · Dec 28, 2006, 07:31 PM // 19:31

Reduce duration to ~25 sec, up recharge to 12-15 sec, and make it ~80-90 damage (all at 16 blood). IMO that would be fine.

twicky_kid · Dec 29, 2006, 08:24 AM // 08:24

I've had this skill trigger when I was below some one else. I was at half life and the target had a full bar. Still triggered and put me at 100 life. Then I ran away very quickly.

When you are a war and SV pops up you rarely have enough time to catch before it nails you 2-3 times.

Patccmoi · Dec 29, 2006, 09:11 AM // 09:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

I've had this skill trigger when I was below some one else. I was at half life and the target had a full bar. Still triggered and put me at 100 life. Then I ran away very quickly.

You can't judge things by the bar. SV triggers if your health is lower, not your health %. If your target has 250 max health cause he's stupid and brought 3 sup runes and got DPed, you can be at 50% of 550 health and you'll still get SV procing. In RA you can run a SV Necro with fairly low max health and Prot Spirit and people trying to kill you without enchant removal are quite likely to just die from SV cause it'll proc nearly every hit.

Riotgear · Dec 29, 2006, 09:46 AM // 09:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

That wouldn't work. Before the buff, Spoil Victor took 63 Health per proc. And it was completely useless back then...

It was 53, not 63.

Thomas.knbk · Dec 29, 2006, 09:49 AM // 09:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

That wouldn't work. Before the buff, Spoil Victor took 63 Health per proc. And it was completely useless back then...

o rly?? I thought it was about 45
Never used it though, because it sucked so much.

Patrograd · Dec 29, 2006, 10:08 AM // 10:08

I think that with so much hex hate around, I'd like what hexes there are to be extreme, as they just dont stick in a real situation. I'm sure it hurts like hell in RA, and I'm sure that like SS its great for AI abuse in HB, but I think that in serious play it is so hard to run a hex heavy build at the moment that I'd rather keep skills like this and reapers mark largely untouched, to at least keep hex builds as something you could consider. Lets face it, spoil victor, even in hex heavy, is only going to trigger two or three times *at the very most* against even a semi competent team at most before it is removed.

I think that if you start to nerf skills like this then you need to also give divert hexes a big hit, or generally make hexes more viable as a build choice - otherwise all we will see being run is spike, and there's more than enough of that around as it is, no need to push the meta further in that direction imo. I would really like to see the upcoming balance patch buffing pressure, not nerfing it even further

twicky_kid · Dec 29, 2006, 04:57 PM // 16:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patccmoi

You can't judge things by the bar. SV triggers if your health is lower, not your health %. If your target has 250 max health cause he's stupid and brought 3 sup runes and got DPed, you can be at 50% of 550 health and you'll still get SV procing. In RA you can run a SV Necro with fairly low max health and Prot Spirit and people trying to kill you without enchant removal are quite likely to just die from SV cause it'll proc nearly every hit.

It was during the first 2 minutes of a GvG. No one had died yet and his life did not drop from taking dmg any different than a 550 life total.

I have talked to othere people and they have had the same problem. In some cases being below 100 hp attacking a full life target and SV kills them.

It doesn't happen all the time but I've seen it on more than a few occasions.

Deleet · Dec 29, 2006, 08:48 PM // 20:48

This skill is ridiciously overpowered, just compare it to all the similar skills, like empathy, spiteful spirit, backfire...

It needs a generel nerf =>

cast 2
5...25 duratation (0-16 blood)
25...75 life loss. (still evades PS, good thing because PS is used too much)
15 recharge

If they dont remove it, you can still have it on your target over 100% of the time, especially with cover hexes in a hex heavy build.

JR · Dec 29, 2006, 09:09 PM // 21:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deleet

This skill is ridiciously overpowered, just compare it to all the similar skills, like empathy, spiteful spirit, backfire...

Comparing it with three hexes that are too bad to ever get used competitively is not a good start to an argument.

Kuja · Dec 29, 2006, 11:41 PM // 23:41

I like Anet giving previously useless elites/skills a chance to shine. I would just propose lengthening cast time to 2/3 seconds to give melee a chance to rush in and interrupt it without having to be a shadow prison or AOD sin to take down them in time.

TheOneMephisto · Dec 30, 2006, 12:07 AM // 00:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deleet

This skill is ridiciously overpowered, just compare it to all the similar skills, like empathy, spiteful spirit, backfire...

I'd rather that they buff empathy and spiteful spirit (you can't really buff backfire without the possibility of making it too powerful) than nerf this too heavily. Hexes have enough to deal with when there's amazing hex control like purge sig, convert hexes, expel hexes, and divert hexes going around. With how easily it's getting to remove hexes, they need to be a major threat. Maybe a couple sec off the duration and a couple sec on the recharge, and a slight damage reduction. I'd still like this to be able to be kept up on 2 characters at high blood though.

Saider maul · Dec 30, 2006, 12:13 AM // 00:13

I play a spoil victor necro and i have faced a SV necro in battle. its more a conditional lockdown. if you have a proper set of monks in a GvG or HA team then SV does about an equal amount of dmg as a SF elementalist.

I truely hate seeing people scream a skill is to powerful when all its really done is bring hex heavy teams back to the game and they gave us Divert Hex to manage it.

just be smart and pick your targets wisely.
If anything is done i hope they only shorten the duration to 20sec so an SV necro can only manage 2-3 foes not 3-4 foes.